In this episode, we sit down with Carol Yeung from iNNOVGoals and Lena Wong from Hong Kong Momtrepreneurs.
Full Transcription of our conversation with Carol and Lena.
Regina Larko 0:00
You are listening to #impact Season 5. I am Regina Larko, Founder of #impact. Before we start I want to say thanks to our Season 5 sponsor TimTimTom.
As a mom of 3 small children, the vision of TimTimTom resonates so much:
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My children adore the TimTimTom – Bilingual and Personalised Books for Kids. You can order your books at https://timtimtom.com
Regina Larko 1:18
And now, as we dive into this episode I want to give you a little look behind the scenes. I recorded this episode with Carol and Lena in September 2020, We could not meet in person, at that time I was not able to leave my baby for more than 2 hours, him still heavily relying on me feeding him. Neither was Carol, who brought her little baby girl to the online recording as she met up with Lena. Sitting down with two mothers, both of them passionate changemakers to talk about the sustainable development goals in the context of gender equality and the challenges that last year 2020 in particular brought to mothers and children all over the globe was one of my highlights of the past year. What this episode also shows is the friendship of two women that are supportive of each other in all aspects of life, business and impact. You can find all the links mentioned as well as behind the scenes pictures in the show notes of this episode over at hashtagimpact.com/season5 Enjoy!
Regina Larko 2:42
Today I am sitting down with Carol Yeung from iNNOVGoals and Lena Wong from Hong Kong Momtrepreneurs, both of them are making an impact with their work here in Hong Kong, educating everyone, children and students, as well as corporate leaders, NGOs and government organizations on the Sustainable Development Goals.
Carol says “I want a sustainable future for our future generation. And education is key.” Thank you so much to both of you, Carol and Lena, for joining us on #impact so we can learn more from you about the Sustainable Development Goals also SDGs for short, welcome to the show.
Carol, I would like to actually start with you, because you founded iNNOVGoals recently, a bit more than a year ago, and you are now into your second year.
The name of your company was inspired by the Sustainable Development Goals. Can you share a little bit about that, and then also give our listeners a little bit of the taste of what the Sustainable Development Goals are all about, why they are important and why you care so much about them.
Carol Yeung 4:10
iNNOVGoals, a lot of people when they hear that name, they look at the name and they think it’s an IT company.
But actually it represents the Sustainable Development Goals. The goals part is refering to the Global Goals, which is equivalent to Sustainable Development Goals.
So why I came up with this name is because, I think we should innovate for the goals. What do I mean by innovating? We should think of solutions, we should act for solutions for the Sustainable Development Goals.
And also, I start the company name with the “I” because I actually want to say, I can be a starting point for change. So as talking about everyone, me, myself, and you, everyone that’s listening. So in terms of Sustainable Development Goals, why I’m so passionate about it. It’s actually been many years of interest about the UN.
When I was in university, I took international business. So I have always been interested in international affairs and I wished I’d worked in foreign affairs before, actually. But you know, one thing lead to another, so I didn’t work in the Foreign Service Department.
But however, I’ve always been interested in this topic. And then over the last six, seven years, I joined the leadership organization called JCI (Junior Chamber International) which, you know, led me to a road down the path where I did get to travel to the UN headquarters in New York and attended a UN Summit and that was the year 2015.
When I went to the UN, that’s when they were talking about the SDGs, the Sustainable Development Goals. So a month later, after I visited the UN, they adopted the goals.
What are the Sustainable Development Goals? They are 17 goals that are the United Nations roadmap set for the next 15 years, from 2016 to 2030. They want the 17 goals to be achieved for a sustainable future. And it’s goals for everyone, everywhere. No matter who you are, we should act for the goals together for this sustainable future.
It encompasses economic, social, environmental aspects. So it’s a very ambitious set of goals actually, if we were to look at it really academically.
Regina Larko 6:46
Lena,
Over to you. Lena, you founded an organization that has I think, particularly one of the 17 goals at heart. The title already says it: Your organization is called Momtrepreneurs. And to me, when I first heard about your organization and what you’re trying to achieve, I instantly thought about SDG 5, Gender equality and inclusion.
Encouraging women to speak up, live their dreams, start their businesses, and get heard with what kind of impact they are making as well. Is my estimate, right? Tell us a little bit more about what is behind Momtrepreneurs, and how you are making an impact here in Hong Kong?
Lena Wong 8:01
Thank you, Regina, thank you for having us here. Yes, first of all, when I came up with the name Momtrepreneurs, I think out loud, we are making it very clear that we are telling the world that mothers can also be entrepreneurs.
Over the past two years, I’ve received a lot of support, not only, women who can resonate with me, because they are mothers or they are women, I also get support from men as well. And that is extremely powerful, receiving the male counterparts’ support.
And in the past few years, we have done workshops and trainings, helping mothers in their startup journey. And at the same time, we also have put together a fellowship program this year for helping marginalized women from all walks of life to learn about entrepreneurship and motherhood.
Adding on to the theme that we have every year now at Hong Kong Momtrepreneurs, where we will have one focus each year, and at the end of the year, we will have thought leadership piece developed. The theme for this year is embracing motherhood.
We want to help redefine the role of motherhood from an Asian perspective. In Western culture, there is a lot of literature’s covering motherhood, and less so in Asia. So we want to really bring in the definitions from an Asian perspectives. We want to have everyone included both men and women to know that there should be no boundaries in motherhood, and mothers should be empowered to do all sorts of things.
And we are doing a lot of things for the family, for ourselves, and for the community. So that’s what we are here for. And you know, we are a nonprofit organization, and hopefully, the further we develop our extensions, we will, later on, have a social enterprise arm for projects that can help women in their employment as well.
So we’re definitely working towards targeting SDG Goal number five, as well as promoting a decent work and economic growth, which is Goal 8.
Carol Yeung 10:48
Right, correct.
Regina Larko 10:50
Yeah, all these different goals! I think there is something maybe a little bit almost overwhelming about them. I can say from my own experience when it comes to the Sustainable Development Goals.
And that’s why it was so important to me to have two experts on this with us here today to share with our listeners, to make these goals less intimidating, more human, and encourage everyone listening right now to start educating themselves on them and what what they stand for and how everyone can actually take action in their own little ways to contribute towards tackling these goals.
No matter if on an individual level or within their organizations or within their schools. Everyone really has the power to use the language and blueprints that these Sustainable Development Goals provide that were agreed upon by the 193 member states of the United Nations. Did I get the numbers correct now? I’m bad with numbers.
Carol Yeung 12:03
Yes. Bang on.
Regina Larko 12:06
Yes. So this is something that I think is really powerful to have as a tool. Let’s dive right in with these 17 goals. That’s already a lot.
But when we look closely, within these different kinds of goals that are, for example, clean water and sanitation, responsible consumption and production, reduced inequalities, peace, justice, and strong institutions, life on land, and good health and well-being. I mean, there’s so many more.
But within these, there are over 160 targets and over 200 indicators. I think these are great to have because they help to measure and track the impact. But it is very complex. And to be frank, when I started researching the Sustainable Development Goals, I thought, for season five, I saw these 17 goals, you know, that’s the first thing you see this colorful map laid out.
And I thought these were great topics for individual episodes of season five. And I thought each episode could be targeted towards one particular goal. And then I went to an event where I saw you, Carol, introduce the SDGs game. And I joined that game. I played that game, and I never looked at the Sustainable Development Goals the same way again. What is this SDG game, Carol?
Carol Yeung 13:55
Yes, I am so happy that you know, I got to reconnect with you after that game. Because you know, there are so many people in that game. And I got a lot of people that came up to me that they felt different, as you said, after the game. So yes, the 2030 SDG Game is one of the training programs that I run within in the goals, and probably the most featured program, and most people find me to do the program for their organizations.
The 2030 SDG game is, as you said, you know, we want to make these goals, you know, more reachable for people to understand, because these 17 goals, as you said, Okay, we got hundreds of targets, we got hundreds of indicators.
Unfortunately, it’s difficult to grasp that information, just easily, and that we want to educate, you know, even the younger generation, how do we educate them, they’re gonna read everything, like, you know, word by word, that’s, that’s boring, I’m sorry, to tell you.
The SDG game is really just to give a simulation and an experiential learning experience for our audience so that they can learn about the SDGs in more of a way where they can break it down with from a game world equal to the real world. So you’re like, Okay, Carol, what you’re talking about?
So basically, what that makes the game world so that, you know, you are going to think about how would you react in the real world? And if we would give you all these kind of projects or give you like resources, how do you play the game? And how would that be in our real world. So therefore, it’s not really to learn about the individual goals within the game. But it is to give you a mindset change.
That’s the most important thing, a change in terms of how you live in a co creating space with, you know, different people in the world, and also how we design for a bit by their future with our limited or existing resources.
Regina Larko 15:59
Yeah, definitely. I mean, the mindset change definitely happened. For me, as a participant, maybe I can share a little bit about why it was so powerful is because you are given. And please, Carol and Lena, also correct me if I if I’m not explaining it the right way. Because you are the experts on facilitating this game, you’re both doing that Lena and Carol, you are out there in the schools and in the organizations playing this game and sharing this.
For me, it was so powerful, because I think the role that I got, it’s kind of like a role play, and you’re, you’re given an identity. And that identity is not necessarily one that you really associate yourself with. So you have to step into this role and you’re giving a kind of profile and a goal. For example, you are a developer of a big new building, and you have these goals in mind and this amount of money. And this is what you want to achieve.
On the cards you will see that for this project that you have to implement, it’s going to be great for Goal number 9, industry infrastructure, but you really going to harm the life on land, because you’re going to have to make space and there will be, there will be land that will have to be reclaimed for this.
So I think what was mind blowing to me was even -and now I’m not saying developers are all bad – within each of these roles that you were given and these projects that you are given, you can see, all of them have pros and cons, all of them will have certain implications, and they will harm certain groups and benefit others.
And then how can you negotiate in this collective to find solutions to make the world more sustainable, and fair and better, even with all these different stakeholders involved? So I think this was so powerful.
And I recommend everyone who would want to have this experience to look out for – no matter where you are based, because there are facilitators all over the globe. But especially if you’re here in Hong Kong, to reach out to you guys and experience it for themselves.
How was it for you when you played the game the first time? Were you already educated about it? Or was there this AHA-moment as well? Lena, do you remember that moment?
Carol Yeung 18:55
We played at my clubhouse, remember. You were my first participant.
Lena Wong 19:00
Yeah. Yeah. It’s just trying to remember. One thing about being a mom is that your memory is getting worse….yeah, yeah. So the first time I played the game, it was after Carol got her facilitations from Japan. And so you, because in order to play the game, you need a facilitator who is certified and you’re qualified by the game creator.
Regina Larko 19:27
The game creator is from Japan originally?
Lena Wong 19:29
Yes. So I took it with a very small group of only six people.
Carol Yeung 19:36
A total of six people.
Lena Wong 19:38
Yes, six people, very small, because it was the first time Carol was doing it. Honestly, that was a busy day, with kids running around as well. So let me just try to recall.
I had some knowledge of the SDGs for sure. Because Carol and I serve in the same organization JCI (Junior Chamber International), were actually she was more fortunate that she got to go to the UN.
I was at this very same position in 2013, for the JCI. But that year, I was pregnant. So I didn’t get to travel to New York. So that’s one of my setbacks. I was appointed as the United Nations Commissioner for the JCI in Asia Pacific, but I couldn’t go to New York. So that was a bit disappointing. But I got to go to the Beijing office for a bit. And so I have some knowledge of the SDGs already. And I already convinced Carol to do this facilitations qualification. So I do know what it is. And it was, I have to confess it was confusing. I actually never really told Carol about it.
Regina Larko 21:00
It all comes out now. Oh, wow. What was confusing about it? What was the confusing part for you?
Lena Wong 21:08
Probably because we have a very small group. And, and it was the first time Carol was doing it. So I’m sure she was very nervous. She tried her best to have everything on but it was confusing because I felt like there was a lot of, like, rules and restrictions.
There seems to be a lot going on. If I may just say and instead of working in groups, each of us worked individually, so I couldn’t get the interactions, I guess, Regina, you got the chance to interact with the people in your group. During the game that you first experienced, I didn’t get that.
So I was on my own, looking at my cards, thinking and I don’t I honestly couldn’t remember interacting with other people that much.
I think something as a trainer, sometimes we will fall into this trap, that when we attended training as a participant, we always try to put on that trainer cap, you know, and try to think from the trainer perspective, which kind of restricts us from enjoying the process as a participants. And so I think that I fell into that moment.
So but the second time I played the game if I may just kind of recap because I guess In a way, that’s why I forgot about my first time. The second time I played the game, it was the game creators who came to Hong Kong in March, April 2019. And that’s when I got the AHA-moment because it was a much larger audience there were about 25 or so. So I got people in my group, I got to talk to people and interact, and I got to really enjoy the experience of the game. So I really have to confess that to Carol.
Carol Yeung 23:14
But one thing you forgot is that after the game Yeah, she messaged me. You actually said that, you know, you looked up your potato chips differently after that.
Lena Wong 23:25
Yeah, that Oh, you’re right. Okay. Yeah, the first time I played the game, so we have the debriefing notes. During the reflection at the end of each game, we usually use the example of potato chips.
I don’t know if Regina remembers that. And, yeah, personally, I’m a big potato chips eater. And so I felt very bad to be buying all these cheap snacks, So that was that was probably the, the biggest key takeaway, the first time I played the game, because I never thought about what sort of damage I’m bringing to the environment by buying one pack of chips.
Carol Yeung 24:12
I do want to make a disclaimer. I’m not saying you shouldn’t eat chips. You can have still have chips, and you can still have your ice cream and all that stuff. But it’s just about the choices. We don’t want to starve anyone of depriving anyone of having snacks. After hearing this podcast, we do want them to, you know, have the enjoyment of having snacks, but you know, what can we select? Are there other options available? Is it really difficult to find options? I think that’s the question we want to ask.
Lena Wong 24:44
Yeah, I think personally, after being through this whole process of playing the game, as a participants and later on get the facilitations qualifications, I have made changes in my daily life. I wouldn’t say I’m a big eco sustainable person now.
But when I make my choices, I’m more mindful about what’s the impact and bringing it in. So one of the things I guess we have to point out, the three of us are mothers here. So one of the different choices that I’ve made, is the period product.
After been through using period products for over 30 years in my life, I finally decided to use the cup, you know, the silicon cup, instead of using sanitary pads. It took me a while I would have to say a few months to really know how to make use of it, but I can already see the difference. You know, I never thought about how many plastic it is in each of the sanitary pad until I went through our workshops and realizing that Oh, yeah, it is quite a lot.
And, you know, we use you know, quite a few pieces every month. And, you know, I have been having my period since I was 11. So it’s been many, many years and over time this creates a lot of environmental damage in the world. Now I have two daughters, I start to realize that hey, maybe just you know, as an individual, we can make choices, and you’re making that small differences.
But as a mother, you know, we are also educating our own children. And hopefully that can also bring a lot of change. Plus it’s amazing that I finally get to know my body a lot more by using different products. So I think the implication is that I do look ahead and thinking about how many more years will I be using this.
Lena Wong 27:06
Wait, we have the baby crying in the back.
Regina Larko 27:08
Bring in the baby! This is also a first for #impact. We have Carol’s little daughter, being part of our recording today. You hear her, she misses Mommy. Thank you, you know thank you so much for making this possible. Carol you have your baby with you. She is a little bit older than mine. We both had our new babies in this crazy year 2020.
It’s very meaningful to me, can I just say to you, that we are recording this, three women, three moms in this special year. And also, this is actually the first recording I am doing after I am returning from my maternity leave. So as you can imagine, all the topics that we discussed when it comes to women and mothers, are very close to my heart, just because I’m also living it.
And I know that a lot of parents listening as well. And even if, you’re listening, and you don’t have your own child, or you decide not to have children. We all have young people in our lives. And we have all been children ourselves, and we all have mothers, right? So I think the topic of the female empowerment and lifting mothers up is one that relates to all of us men, women, mothers, non mothers, parents, non parents alike.
Regina Larko 29:09
We’ve all been children. We all have mothers. Before we continue I want to highlight a Hong Kong local charity that no other advocates for the rights of one of the most vulnerable groups in our society: Migrant domestic workers that become mothers and their children.
Catherine Gurtin 29:30
Hi. I am Catherine. I am the CEO of Pathfinders, the only charity in Hong Kong dedicated to supporting the unique vulnerabilities of children born to migrant mothers. As a mother myself of two small children, I am only able t work in Hong Kong due to the incredible support of my migrant domestic worker Auntie Solast.
Currently around 400.000 migrant domestic workers are employed in Hong Kong. Many, like me, rely heavily on the support of a migrant domestic worker to help care for young children or aging parents to be able to work. But what happens when a migrant domestic worker becomes pregnant? While all working women in Hong Kong without discrimination are entitled to maternity leave, in practice, and despite legal protections pregnant workers all too often illegally fired or pressured to resign because their employers simply don’t know what else to do. When this happens, the pregnant mother immediately becomes homeless and within 2 weeks, when her working visa expires, she loses access to essential services like public health, vital for her and her unborn child.
For those unable to return home, potentially for fear of being persecuted as a single mother with a mixed-race child, their children are typically undocumented, with no access to medical care, shelter, and education. As an advocate and champion for the protection of the rights of children, Pathfinders enables me to live my purpose with passion every day to ensure every child born in Hong Kong to a migrant mother is protected and respected. Fundamentally, that every child born in Hong Kong receives a fair start in life.
Regina Larko 31:06
Reach out to the team at Pathfinders and support their important work at www.pathfinders.org.hk Now onto the conversation as we discuss the unique challenges the Global Pandemic has brought to women and girls.
Regina Larko 31:27
And actually, it’s one that because of the pandemic is one that is so in trouble. All this amazing progress that has been made, when it comes to women and girls empowerment could actually be lost because of the pandemic. So I found something on the SDGs in action app. I love about this App that I can, I can find like news updates there, I can find information about the goals. So I will put this app in the show notes as well for our listeners to check it out.
And there’s one article from early September 2020. I just want to read you this. And it says highlighting the disproportionate and devastating socio economic impact of COVID-19 on Women and Girls globally. The UN chief Antonio Guterres called on Monday, so that was early September, for a major push to prevent years, even generations worth of progress on women’s empowerment from being lost to the pandemic. How do you feel about that? Hearing that now Carol, with your little daughter probably in your on your lap right now?
Carol Yeung 33:06
Breastfeeding in my arm.
Regina Larko 33:07
Feeding her as we speak. I mean, when I’m hearing this, on the one hand side, I’m incredibly frustrated and sad and upset. And at the same time, I know we have to encourage people to be hopeful and keep working on this. Yes. To avoid losing all that progress that has been made.
Carol Yeung 33:22
Yes, definitely. I think this really hits home. Definitely, within this year, because my girl is now seven and a half months old. So living through this pandemic with her, you know, and obviously you say, Oh, you can probably find childcare and it’s not easy to find childcare right now, sustainable ones are trusted ones right now. You do fear about the safety issue right now a lot more.
Going through these seven months or six months, you know, your baby needs you, the baby needs the mother to be with, for growth. But our society hasn’t provided,a workplace or facilities that are allowing us to have this balance.
As I was walking here to join this podcast, I kept on thinking: Really, can a mother bring the child to work? Can we have a co-working space, that can have childcare facilities? You can say men, can they can they take care of the child? I mean, that’s another story. But I think for the early years, the early stage of the child’s healthy development, it is true that the mother needs to be around. And of course, you say, can we rely on helpers, can we rely on our mothers, the older generations to help take care? I mean, I’m sure they are glad to take care and of course helpers, you pay for their services, but still, i I think it doesn’t change that parenting comes from, you know, the parents.
Lena Wong 35:42
Yeah. So if I may just add on to that. Now, one of the things that we are hoping to bring in at Hong Kong Momtrepreneurs, is to work with some co-working space, to create a space that would be more child friendly.
I’m actually sharing my office “Bring me a book”, which is an NGO in Hong Kong, promoting book reading, and they have a mini library here at the office. And to me, this is an added benefit because I can bring my daughters over to be reading here as a member of Bring me a book, so it’s amazing.
And at the same time, I’m also in discussions with one of the major co-working space in Hong Kong, to create a more child friendly co-working space,create a section that can have more of child facilities, while the parents, both mothers and fathers can work professionally.
And so hopefully, we are making progress here in Hong Kong to change the scene. I mean, I will have to say, we’re quite fortunate in Hong Kong, that we have the foreign domestic helper, who can support us, and I’m always blessed with how much Auntie has been helping us as a family.
But we also have to be mindful that like what Carol was saying that we also have to play the parents role. We are ultimately the parents of the children. And so it is important for us to always have the children with us, even when we are working.
And I think with COVID it is helping in a lot of ways that we are forced to be working from home. And a lot of the people are forced to be playing the parents role that they actually haven’t been playing in the past years. So I’m hopeful, I’m quite optimistic about this that we are seeing changes in Hong Kong where we will have more integration of work and family.
Carol Yeung 38:11
Yeah. I mean, definitely over the last six, seven months, I definitely had discussions with my husband about if I be a stay at home mom, if it means to give up my career. And my husband doesn’t agree to me giving up my career after being a mom.
But I do believe that sometimes we may be forced to make that decision, which I’ve heard some mothers do. Because they have been forced to make that decision because they feel they cannot balance. So and also recently there was a neighbor, she also has a six month old and but she’s been pushed by her company to work really, really tough shifts.
And they say they’re family friendly or breastfeeding family friendly, but you know, sometimes it’s not really true. So therefore they’ve been pushed to the edges to actually quit their career and have be stay at home mom for a certain period of time.
Regina Larko 39:17
I can really see that the pandemic just highlighted a lot of systemic but also maybe societal issues that were already there. Especially when it comes to what kind of responsibilities are still taken over by women also in the households in developing countries. There has been school closures in great parts of the world. That kind of responsibility, to educate the children, often did fall on, on the women who tried to then adjust their time schedules.
And it’s a tricky and hard thing to discuss. And I think that’s why in a way the pandemic has given opportunity to start these conversations or make them heard more. And because like with everything, communication and addressing the issues, can also bring ways of awareness, raise awareness.
But also allows us to talk about the solutions. And when talking about the school closures, of course, something that immediately comes to my mind. That’s, of course, SDG goal 3 Good health and Well Being. With a lot of children all over the globe, especially in developing countries, the school is also their place where they would get their meals.
Where they would get not just education, but where they are provided a space where they can thrive, connect with others, but also to get meals because in their homes, there would not be enough food for everyone in the family.
This is something that especially I think, as a parent is something, and especially living in in in this kind of privileged context where we have access to feed our kid, to really be made aware of the incredible amount of children that are being pushed into, multi dimensional poverty.
So not just deprived from education during this pandemic, but also health and nutrition, sanitation, water. So there was a UN study that has found that, that there are now because of the pandemic, 150 million more children that are being pushed into this kind of poverty. Is there is there something that you feel as moms that that we could do like collectively to change that?
Carol Yeung 42:52
I think taking a step back when you’re saying the good health and well being. I think after this pandemic, good health and well being would definitely not just be the physical health, but also the mental health of our children. They’re going to be living in this new world. They’re going to be living in a different kind of interaction with people. I mean, it’s going to be very different from how we knew the world from our, our ages.
And then obviously, for our ages, you know, we wish we had the old world, and we miss the old world and how we adapt to that as well. So our mental states are actually going to be quite impacted or actually already impacted. I think over these months as I’m had maternity leave, stayed home, being a new mom, I’m growing a support network somehow. Having people to check in with you, even though we’re living in some sort of isolation because of social distancing.
How we can create some support network, to care for people, as not able to go out and have very regular social interaction, but how can we make use of our technology and still have decent interactions? Because it’s definitely going to be very different for our kids growing up. How can we still have good interactions for them even though you know, as much as we dislike having Zoom classes, but a hybrid mode of learning is going to continue for this new era I believe.
Lena Wong 44:55
I definitely echo that. Especially with two school-aged children at home now for ourselves. Seeing how my girls had to go through the Zoom classes, and facing the uncertainty ahead. My two girls definitely have been trying hard to adapt to this. And, the same for my husband and me. But my younger one just started school again today.
And she’s always been there more socializing, really vocal, outgoing one, she has also experienced a lot of anxiety impact, over the past months, for not being able to go to school in the past, you know, nine months now. And so I think I’m actually getting very concerned in fact about the mental health of our next generation.
Having been through the pandemic, a lot of our children may not have the opportunity to communicate and to socialize with their peers in the same way that we had as a child. And so it would be a problem for, especially for children of younger age, for the older ones, it would be a little bit easier because they can cope with their online Zoom interaction and online lessons and interactions with their classmates.
But for the younger ones, like kindergarten age to early primary school age, it is very challenging for them growing up and, and I’m glad to see that the government is allowing them to go back to school now. And I’m hoping that continue having some hybrid, like what Carol was saying, like hybrid mode of learning, so that they can continue having that social context of being able to interact with their classmates.
(baby crying in background) We have a bit of anxiety here now.
Regina Larko 47:02
Yeah, I think she agrees that’s what she tries to say, with her sounds here. That kind of world she is gonna grow up in. I think that there was something you said about that, as well. Where you were you said that it just changed you as well how you look at the world after you became a mom and I think that’s something that everyone kind of who had their own children has experienced, as well.
You always want to leave the next generation, leave something behind that they, where they can thrive in a world that is livable and fair and just and where they will have opportunities to follow their follow their passions.
And that’s why I also I really like the – I don’t know if you would call it a tagline, I call it tagline now, of the Sustainable Development Goals, I see it quoted often, that that kind of slogan “to leave no one behind”.
And I think especially this year, 2020 has just been unprecedented. And it has shown how difficult it actually is to make these goals reality and how we have faced setbacks in achieving those goals being pushed back in certain areas decades even.
And also it has shown how the most vulnerable groups are really the ones most impacted by them pandemic, the ones that already had the struggles now they’re struggling even more.
And this is actually a topic that we will highlight in an upcoming episode of #impact where we have been speaking to three local NGOs that share how they have been coping with the pandemic, and how they have adjusted their programs to reach their beneficiaries.
So I already want to make our listeners aware of this amazing episode that really highlights how, how resilient these local organizations that are that are really catering to the most vulnerable groups in our society – children, mothers, minorities – how these organization have been working on adjusting their programs so that they are not left behind, especially during this time.
And that brings me actually to how you have adjusted during this time, when we were talking about the Sustainable Development Goals game or SDG Game is the correct term, right. I mean, this is a game I played face to face live at an event. Events all over the globe have been canceled, face to face is not an option, social distancing is, I think, will be like that the term of the year. How do you bring the experience of this game to your audience in this crazy?
Carol Yeung 50:36
I haven’t really done a lot of live games ever since the start of this pandemic. So it has been almost six months that there is barely any live game. I can’t say we didn’t have any live game, we did have two, I did do two, which was actually working with Lena when we had like, a little bit of a break in Hong Kong in the (covid) waves. However, it definitely has just cancelled all the live games, which was possible.
There were a lot of jobs lined up for me, obviously, after birth I would take that regular three months or four months maternity leave, and then I would have jobs lined up even abroad or even locally, but it all has been cancelled due to the pandemic. And so yes, live Games has not happened. Even if it did happen, as I said, we had social distance where they all wear masks, we have all sanitize.
Where I talked with my peers, other facilitators around the world, similar situations, and they lived all around the world. So therefore, you know, some of them, they say, yeah, we’re trying to resume but again, of course, Europe over there are starting to have another wave now, where they did this game and they could only have 10 people in the room. And they all did very, very strict social distancing within the room and queuing up and stuff.
So we look at this and we’re like, okay, by about April or May, of our world facilitators of this game, the creator of the game, we all kind of got together and we know that this is not going to be something that we’re going to be saying, Oh, yeah, in three months time, we’ll be back to normal. It’s not. So therefore by I think, mid of this year, there has been talks, and it has been in progress that an online version is being developed. So but obviously, the most interesting thing about this online version being developed is that working with the creators and what we’ve been doing some demo runs and trial run of this online version and going from like a prototyping stage where had like nothing to be honest, there is no platform yet. To now there is some sort of platform, which I actually haven’t tested yet at this time.
But we started from just trying to see how would the game, a live version of the game can be placed online, definitely has been a very interesting experience from the last three or four months looking at it being developed. Because a live version of the game and an online version of the game, one of the biggest difference is definitely the communication of people.
And it’s one of the biggest challenge to bring it on to an online setting. You say oh no, you can dialogue with more people online, you can talk to a lot more people across the board at the same time. But it’s not as easy actually. Because, you know, you can’t have 30 people speaking in one space, and expect them to be able to listen to each other online. So therefore, it’s very interesting how, you know, I think later how when we do have this online version, hopefully by the end of this year, is how we can still have decent communication within an online space so that people can still have that experience, where they are formulating solutions or discussing you know, how they can action with their, you know, with within the the game space where we say that, you know, you have resources and we want you to use these resources to to make changes in the world.
I think, unfortunately, yes, life game, we definitely hope that it can still happen. But again, like I said, just now about education, you know, we’ll probably have to do some kind of hybrid or online option very soon so we can also have other experiences. Aside from the game, obviously, I will work with other partners to develop some online workshop, other interactive online workshops on sustainability, so we can further our footprints and keep on this impact to tell people about this topic.
Lena Wong 54:54
Yeah, I think with the pandemic, we definitely like you’re saying social distancing is a big term this year. But the other big phrase that we always say is, “you’re on mute”. At any zoom call, you know, oftentimes we put ourselves on mute and forget about it, and then we start talking. So we often hear you’re on mute.
Interestingly, I think it, you know, Zoom, and all this technology, also bring us closer, I would have never thought about having training by a trainer who is out in Switzerland, contracting a game for us, where we have people from all over the world joining. But just because it’s online, it is possible. And I’m also enrolling myself in a program. We got fellows who from all different countries that I’ve never been to, in the same cohort, and these interactions is very valuable. And it would not have happened if it’s not the pandemic. So I think, yes, we’re definitely getting a lot of restrictions. But at the same time, with technology, we are actually getting closer to people whom we have never thought about the possibilities of running, you’re running across them.
Regina Larko 56:27
Yes, and really amplifying your impact because of that, because of these new opportunities and potential of collaborating with people that you’re now able to reach thanks to technology.
I also feel grateful for that, to have the opportunity to jump on a video call, on a personal level with my family. Of course, that has been happening before too. We joined virtual weddings that we would have never been able to travel to but now they were live-streamed and we were there. There are certain things maybe when we’re looking back, you know, 20 years from now, and we’re looking at today, we will maybe say yes, there were things that were really hard about this.
And the challenges were immense. But because we adjusted because we found ways to cope with it, we actually didn’t have to go back to in a way like going back to normality, but we created a new normal that hopefully works towards the Sustainable Development Goals to take more care of our nature. We didn’t touch upon that now, but we will in an upcoming episode of season five, where of course, because of the limited travels now you can really see in certain areas, the positive, like impact on nature because of shutting down industries, locking down and limiting travel.
I think, in a way, this year, is a great opportunity to look at these sustainable goals from a different perspective with a different lens, with more urgency that has been highlighted by the pandemic, but at the same time, hopefully with these innovative solutions, like in the name of iNNOVGoals, right, to overcome this. And now my favorite question of all that all my guests have to answer. What could everyone do right now to make the world a better place?
Carol Yeung 59:08
I think actions doesn’t need to be big all the time. It can start from small steps. Just maybe take a step back and look at your daily life. And maybe just think of one thing that you could that you feel that may be negative words where you can turn that into a positive footprint. So that’s me.
Lena Wong 59:40
For me, I always like to remind myself that less is more. I am quite mindful in the way I spend realizing that you actually don’t need a lot in your life to have a very fulfilled life. By choices, we decide to live more remotely in a small apartment. And so that means we buy less, and spend less and create less ways. So I think that’s already good enough, as an individual.
Regina Larko 01:00:21
Yeah, I love that. I mean, on an individual level, I think it’s really powerful. One of our former guests, who inspired us greatly, Matt Friedman from the Mekong Club said 10 million small, compassionate actions could translate into a lot. And if our listeners now just feel inspired by what you shared, and follow your advice, I’d really encourage them to do that. And I also encourage them to connect with you and learn more about your organizations to start following your journey. Where can they do that? Carol?
Carol Yeung 01:00:57
Definitely can follow us on Facebook iNNOVGoals, just type iNNOVGoals and you’ll find me on Facebook, on LinkedIn and Twitter or on on all these social platforms also definitely can get in touch on that way. Obviously, Hong Kong Momtrepreneurs same thing.
Lena Wong 01:01:20
Yes, Hong Kong Momtrepreneurs is on LinkedIn, Facebook, I G, and websites as well. And hopefully one day I can learn more from Regina, and we can have our own podcast as well.
Regina Larko 01:01:34
Oh, I would love that. I would love a Hong Kong Momtreprneuers podcast. I want to see that happen. Lina, challenge accepted, we got to make this happen.
Lena Wong 01:01:47
As our first guest.
Regina Larko 01:01:50
You’re too kind. I hear Carol, your daughter has been so patient with us. And I want to say a big thanks to her as well. Can we give a shout out to her? Thank you, little girl for making it possible for us. Thank you so much, Carol and Lena for letting our listeners learn more about the Sustainable Development Goals. And I am going to be catching up with you in the future to hear how everything is going. Thank you so much.
Get in touch with Carol and Lena.
- Official Website of iNNOVGoals
- Official Website of Hong Kong Momtrepreneurs
Helpful resources to educate yourself on the Sustainable Development Goals
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